ellestra: (river song)
I went through years of learning English. I learned it first while in primary school and it was mostly interesting, then in high school (horrible), and during high school at the Warsaw University English Department (great) and finally while studying at the University. I even went to London to a language school during high school. All that time the English I was taught was British English. From the very first How do you do in my first book to having points taken out for not using plural with nouns like police and family.This is why I use UK spell checker and write my nouns with '-ours' and verbs with '-ise'. Even though It would be easier to at least drop the 'u' as the words get closer to Polish ones ('honor' is even the same). But, after years of tests, it just too ingrained and I confuse myself when I try to switch. I found it easier to stick to BE.

However, my vocabulary is a weird mix of British and American terms as I picked up a lot of words from American films and TV and books. Of course, I also watch and read a lot of British stuff. English in my head is a sort of jumble of terms from both and sometimes I know which belongs where but sometimes I don't. Now that I live in US it makes me confused sometimes. For example my 'tap' was leaking. So went to asked for it to be fixed and get empty stares when I said my tap was leaking. It took me explaining what it does to get the 'faucet' fixed. I didn't understand as I heard Americans say tap water before. I was sure 'tap' was an American.

I get called on the Briticism I use from time to time. I say 'lift' or 'pavement' and don't even realise it. I know Americans drop something from 'aluminium' but I can't remember which and I end up saying 'alumium?' or 'alumnium?' and it's bad so I stopped trying (it doesn't help that it is 'aluminium' in Polish too).

I though I was used to it and kind of keeping it under control after two years (except for 'aluminium', it's too tricky). So when I started to see the articles about Briticism popping up everywhere I was surprised to learn how many words I though to be part of standard English everywhere are actually British English. 'Brilliant' 'ginger' 'holiday'. I certainly am guilty of saying 'flat' (still am not sure what to replace 'block of flats' with when I explain where my family lives). I personally hope this trend continues so I can mix the terms and be understood. I'm too lazy.
ellestra: (telamon)
The problem with languages are not just how they differ. Sometimes it's what's similar. All Indoeuropean languages started from the same root language and then in Europe they kept exchanging and borrowing words and using Latin and Greek to create new ones. But then the words that used to be common start to change meaning. First slightly but then the difference can get really big. My favourite one was always one crucial difference between Polish and Russian. In Russian 'zapomnitie' means 'to remember' in Polish 'zapomnijcie' means 'to forget'. We cracked up every time the teacher told us 'zapomnitie' at the end of the lesson (hey, it was primary school).

Too much similarity is also the reason why Czech is so funny to Poles (and vice versa). Sometimes just the world makes one chuckle as Czech 'divadlo' - 'theater' sounds almost like Polish 'dziwadło' which means 'weirdo' or 'freak'. The fact that they mean 'theatre' just makes it funnier.  One of the most known examples are 'laska nebeska' which means 'heavenly love' in Czech (and was Czech title for Love Actually) but for Poles it sounds just like 'laska niebieska' and means 'blue stick' (literaly) or 'blue chick' ('laska' is slang for 'hot woman'). The images this phrase creates in Polish and Czech minds are radically different. On the other hand Czechs have so much fun every time Poles come looking for a room (or anything else) as the Polish 'szukać' - 'to look for' sounds similar to Czech world for 'fuck'.

The language doesn't need to be that similar to create misunderstanding. Sometimes it comes down to small differences in interpretation. Like with purple. Purple is a dye that can colour cloth red, violet or blue depending on concentration, pH (acidity) and light exposure during the dyeing process. Picking the actual colour you mean when you say purple can be therefore tricky. When I say in Polish 'purpura' - 'purple' I mean dark red:


When you say 'purple' in English you mean this:

In Polish we call this violet. The Color Purple movie was really confusing for me the first time.

Language

Feb. 17th, 2011 11:04 pm
ellestra: (Default)
Nikita had Russians today and I couldn't stop myself from correcting them. My Russian is poor so just think how glaring it was.

Spilers for Nikita 1x15 )

Of course they knew it (I'm sure Ksenia Solo did) so I suspect it was just for the benefit of American viewer. This is probably part of the too common condescending attitude - Americans are too stupid and reality has too be redacted to better fit their misconceptions. It reminds me why Erikson's books were not published in US for years - all publishers passed on the offer to pick  him up as the series was deemed to complicated for American readers.

But I found it funny that the bad guy kept calling Alex bitch in Russian - suchka? soochka? (I'm not sure how to transcribe it to English - Russian transcribed to English is usually unreadable to me - it'll be 'suczka' in Polish transcription and to make it more creepy it's actually a diminutive meaning small or young version) - I though it wasn't a beeped word on tv and most people wouldn't even know what he was saying so I wonder why they used it.

Although I think Russians have it easier with English (especially Americans using it as Brits are more used to learning how other people say something). Their language is transcribed so a person used to English spelling would pronounce somewhat close to original. Polish is written in Latin alphabet but with several important differences in the sounds associated with letters not to mention diacritics. It used to be that it'd get transcribed too but now how the word is written is much more important then how it's said. Despite complaining about secondary illiteracy we are text based society and getting right results on internet searches is more important then the mangling a pronunciation of any word.

However, I've seen the first two episodes of The Chicago Code and I only knew that the main male lead character is of Polish origin because he mentioned it. The way he said his name made it sound more Japanese than Polish. Jarek Wysocki - a Pole would say it Yarek Vysotski in American it's Dżarek Łysaki. It's makes me cringe every time I hear it. It's even worse then the horrible orange/teal coloring that can rival Michael Bay movies.

Randomness

Sep. 15th, 2010 11:24 pm
ellestra: (Default)
I finally finished my poster. I can relax now. Think only about unimportant stuff. So I spent my evening looking through trivia.

I'm watching The Gates and I like it. I like the backstabbing behind smiles and everyone's dirty little secrets. But this is not a review and there's no place for serious stuff in this post. So in the episode before last they've been looking for Paul Blackthorne's character going through his previous aliases. They were all names of characters Paul Blackthorne played previously. In more or less chronological order. The one Dylan says he knew him as first - Guy Morton is a character Paul played on Holby City - a show that Luke Malby was also on. Very cute. Full list: Guy Morton, Liam McGregor, Jack Quinn, Terrence Hill and Shane Healy. Unfortunately, they found him before they got to Harry Dresden.

Movie posters in the style of Polish school of movie posters. They are nice but the polish on them is so bad it's hilarious. I laughed so hard. Few examples: Rams are very quiet, We to kill that dog and fuck off, Boat love iceberg's, That three friend. I wonder if you can guess the movies.
These are the perils of using automatic translators - they are truly horrible for Slavic languages. It's all that declination and conjugation and endings and beginnings that modify or change meanings. And I didn't even mentioned diacritics. But I think I laughed hardest at  Love Boat: Boat is full of homosexuals. Cuba Gooding needs better movies. Way to sneak in your own message. Probably thought noone would notice. Busted.

The Russian (at least it was closer to Russian then Ukrainian) on Nikita seemed to be translated this way too. I looked at the messages and first was just some random letters that I assumed was code but the second said "they don't suspect nothing". Yes, I did this on purpose. The original was without double negation and Slavic languages need double negation. It doesn't make sense otherwise.

I also learned learned that is seen on Maggie Q's hip in the dream/flashback sequence is her own. Very pretty.
ellestra: (Default)
I’ve spent this week learning new techniques at another laboratory (because we don’t have the equipment or place, yet) and finally speaking English. I mean finally because my boss is Polish and it’s often just the two of us and we talk in Polish. It was just like those people who come to another country but only work among their compatriots and never speak local language. Only I’ve spent more years on gaining knowledge. And learning the language.

I know English pretty well. I understand it very well. I never have problem with anyone speaking to fast and accents are usually not a problem for me. For example I never understood when some Americans say they need close captioning for British shows. It’s the same language and the most of the accents are not that hard to understand. And Brits usually have better annunciation. I also don’t translate the English in my head when I hear it, speak it or read it I just think in it. At least that’s how it seems to me. The studies about how brain process language say that your first language, the one you learn in the first two years of your life is recorded in a different part of the brain then the ones you learn later. And all those who you learn later go through a certain interpretation to your first language. And that the second language is stored in a bit different place in your brain. The later you learn the second one, the more work your brain has to do. It’s also connected to the fact that learning also means losing some skills – like hearing some sounds as different. This help to hear the difference between the words and background noise – that’s how you can follow conversation in a loud room. But it also means that Japanese cannot hear the difference between ‘r’ and ‘l’, many non-Slavic people confuse ‘ć’ and ‘cz’ and most foreigners can never say ‘th’ properly.

This all I knew but I’ve noticed one thing during this week about myself and English. Despite having no problem understanding English I can’t listen to music and follow what is said to me at the same time. Listening to music and having conversation in Polish doesn’t bother me at all. I often kept my MP3 on (I listen to music at a very low volume – just a background) and had long conversations and didn’t even think about it. But with English I cannot concentrate on what people are saying to me while I listen to music. Things I need to understand escape me. I wonder if, at least partly, English is coded in my brain in the music connected centres and not just language connected ones. I wonder if anyone else ever experience that.
ellestra: (Default)

After watching Chuck episode 4.

I was bit shocked when I suddenly heard Polish spoken. After Carina says something I heard Sarah say:
”Tylko jak rzucisz jak twoja mamusia”
It means:
“Only if you throw like your mommy”
So I checked on the internet and Carina, who is played by Mini Anden - a Swedish supermodel, and she says in Swedish:
"
Om jag slänger nycklarna till dig, kommer du tappa dem då?" - "If I throw you the keys, will you drop them?"

So the full dialog is
”If I throw you the keys, will you drop them?”
“Only if you throw like your mommy”
Funny, cute and uses both actresses natural abilities.

I of course felt compelled to check up on Yvonne Strehovski because I’m rarely able to understand the (so-called) Polish spoken by foreign actors. I couldn’t understand Jennifer Garner in Alias. Even Meryl Streep in Sophia’s Choice was for most part unintelligible to me.
Howerver this sentence was great – especially “mamusia” – the “si” sound is very hard for non-natives – English speaking people usually say “shi” instead. So I was very impressed.
I of course suspected Yvonne Strahovski had something to do with
Poland because of a surname but I knew she was Ausralian so thought long time ago, doesn’t matter. Then I checked her bio and it says she speaks Polish. Well quite a lot Poles emigrated to Australia in the eighties, among them actors and singers, enough to make a community. I suppose it’s easier to make your kids learn the language if you speak it at home and among neighbours and friends.
And I also found out her real name is Strzechowski (strzecha means thatch – like in thatched roof) – she change it to make you pronounce it properly. She’s my hero. I hate English (American) pronunciations of Polish names. It twists my tongue and I’m usually unable to repeat it. I mentally correct it every time
Even the Chuck’s surname Bartowski – it should be said Bahr – TOHV – ski. Not Bartałski. See ‘ł’ – is the letter we use for that sound you say when you see ‘w’. And ‘w’ means ‘v’ sound – like in German. So former Polish president and Peace Nobel laureate Lech Wałęsa surname is pronounced Vah-WEN-sa not whatever way you read Walesa when you see it. And you should always stress the second syllable from the end.

Bartowski would be so much easier for me to hear if they changed name to Bartovski. Strzechowski is harder because English doesn’t have anything like the 'rz' sound so she just used ‘r’ as close enough. Other are easier – you can simply exchange ‘w’ for ‘v’ and ‘ch’ for h (it’s not ‘k’ and we use ‘cz’ like in Czech Republic for ‘ch’). It looks strange written this way but I could probably recognise it over the phone.
Oh and Wachowski (like the brothers) – Vahovski.
Sipowicz (like the NYPD character) – Shipovich.

Such change of names to spelling that would be correctly pronounced used to be very popular in
Poland. We used Szekspir instead of Shakespeare and Szopen instead of Chopin. Nowadays it’s getting out of use – with written word being more important then spoken one. It’s the alphabetical indexing. And internet searches.

The other funny thing is that if she was born in
Poland her name wouldn’t be Strzechowski. That’s for males. She would be Strzechowska.
See most typically Polish surnames (or rather ones that are internationally recognised as such) are really adjectives. In Polish (as in most other European languages) all nouns have gender – male, female or neutral e.g. ship is male, sun is neutral and death is female. So all adjectives have three forms male, female and neutral. Male usually ends with ‘i’ or ‘y’, female with ‘a’ and neutral with ‘e’, ‘ie’ or ‘o’. Many adjectives have the “–ski” endings e.g. “niebieski(/a/e)” – “blue”. Mostly however “–ski” is for adjective meaning someone’s possession like “kowalski (/a/ie)” - “smith’s” (now you know why it’s the most popular Polish surname ;) ) or “braterski(/a/ie)” – “brother’s”.
Surnames ending with ‘–ski’ or ‘–cki’ behave like adjectives – change ending depending on the sex of he person. So for female it ends with ‘–ska’ and ‘–cka’.
I snickered everytime they said Lewinski.

BTW ‘–cki’ ending doesn’t mean ‘–ki’. If we write a letter you are suppose to say it. And ‘c’ is a ‘ts’ sound like in Tsar. Or if you prefer like ‘tz’ in German like in Gretzki (‘grecki’ means ‘greek’). So Jonathan Lipnicki is not Lipniki – that sounds really stupid.

Sorry for rant.

May 2016

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